RENEGADE THINKING from the CEO of Renegade, the social media & marketing agency that helps clients make more out of less by transforming communications into "Marketing as Service."

The Non-Linear ROI of Social

07/19/13

I’ve spent a lot of time recently obsessing about the ROI of Social Media.  Not just because current and prospective clients want to see some kind of a return on the services Renegade provides (although that’s a damn good reason in and of itself) but also because it’s a fabulously complex Kobayashi Maru-like challenge.

Consider for a moment all the roles that social media can perform for a company including customer service, recruitment, research, product development, awareness building, crowd sourcing content, referral/lead generation, and yes, even direct sales in a few cases.  Now try to unbundle those roles and show straight line ROI for any of them with the exception of the last one.  Good luck to you.  (By the way, smarter minds that mine like Lux Narayan of Unmetric have concluded http://onforb.es/14mn0NX  it’s just not possible.)

Thinking that social media could be my route to the answer, I sent out this tweet:

Screen Shot 2013-07-19 at 9.23.13 AM

 

 

Rob Moore, CEO of Internet Media Labs and a fellow IBM #SmarterCommerce VIP Influencer (which has become an invaluable micro-social network!) was kind enough to respond leading to the conversation below. Rob offered a terrific example of “Non-Linear ROI” which brought us both some comfort that all the social networking stuff we do actually does pay out!  If you have similar tales to share, let me know.

Drew Neisser: First, can you provide a short description of Internet Media Lab?
Rob Moore: Internet Media Labs is a NYC based new media & technology company.  We build technology to help businesses and brands build and manage social relationships more effectively.  We also run a cool co-working space and produce a web show, #InTheLab.

Drew Neisser: Talk to me about how you measure social ROI in terms of your own business?
Rob Moore: Social ROI for us takes many forms, and it is important for businesses to recognize that there are many forms of Social ROI that can be quantified and measured.  Of course, there is the obvious – we make a social connection that becomes a buyer of one of our products or services.  But there is also tangible ROI that comes in different forms: from connectors – people that introduce you to others that ultimately buy – and amplifiers, people that share our message about our products.

It has to be noted, however, that none of this happens without a significant investment in relationship building.  We have amazing social relationships and networks that will have significant impact on our bottom line for years to come.

Drew Neisser: ROI in your case seems like a very non-linear non-direct marketing process. Is that a fair assessment?
Rob Moore: Absolutely.  Up to this point, I would say that most of our ROI would qualify as originating from non-linear connections, i.e. someone that introduced you to someone else, that invited you to speak at a conference, that resulted in a business opportunity.  That is pretty non-linear!

One important thing to recognize as well is that many of those originating relationships happen as the result of seemingly “random” intersections – the serendipity of social.

Drew Neisser: So you met Linda Bernstein (@wordwhacker), who is clearly an influencer and she has been evangelizing on your behalf which lead to various leads which you will close at some point. That sounds like ROI to me. Do you think it’s possible to actually create a model that puts a value on your nurturing of people like Linda?
Rob Moore: First of all, I need to state for the record that it would be impossible for me to put a “value” on my relationship with Linda, she falls into the PRICELESS category!  But that said, you can absolutely model and attribute value to your social relationships, especially when you apply what I call “social forensics” to the analysis: mapping and identifying the true origin of that revenue you just booked.

When you are able to do that, every social relationship can be assigned a potential future value.

I want to be clear that I don’t look every person I meet on Twitter with dollar signs in my eyes.  Rather, I look every new social relationship as an opportunity for mutual discovery, networking and advocacy.  By being authentic and agenda free, trust is formed and friendships are created, the by-product of which is magic!!!

This works both ways for IML, by the way.  We have sponsored many an event, used services, or paid commissions to people and businesses that we have met through social media.  As a matter of fact, our social media ROI balance sheet is a little in the red right now – we need to do something about that!

Drew Neisser: Is this kind of networking / relationship building with influencers scalable?  If so, any thoughts on how?
Rob Moore: It is scalable, but it doesn’t happen without a plan and significant commitment. My friend Angela Maiers (@AngleaMaiers) coined the phrase “Tactical Serendipity”, which I love.  Tactical Serendipity means putting your self in position to take advantage of the random intersections that happen every second in social.  If you can identify where you best social relationships have come from, put yourself in a position to attract more of them – you can scale great relationships if you know where to find them.

Drew Neisser: Also, you’re a seasoned vet with a proven track record which makes it a lot easier for you to network with other influencers like Linda.  Could a junior person at your company have done this? Is this sort of networking something you can teach people?
Rob Moore: Yes I believe this type of networking can be taught to and mastered by almost anyone.  Surely my depth of business experience has been an advantage to me as I have engaged in social, but there was a massive learning curve for me as well.  I think that learning curve can be compressed, though, to accelerate success and positive outcomes.  For junior people, this can be achieved through coaching and mentoring, for senior people new to social it is often just a matter applying existing skills sets and knowledge to well defined social relationship building strategy.

FINAL NOTE: This is just my opening salvo on Social ROI.  Expect a lot more on this subject in the near future.  There are folks out there (like Syncapse) working of formulas to calculate Social ROI and I can’t wait to dig into those…

More Funny Business: Part 2 of Q+A w CollegeHumor’s CEO

06/12/13

paul_greenberg_largePaul Greenberg is CEO of CollegeHumor, a division of IAC that is growing faster than you can say Rodney Dangerfield. At this point, it is easy to believe that Greenberg’s mission for his organization, “To be the best and largest multimedia multi-platform comedy studio,” will be realized soon enough.  In the meantime, I thought you would appreciate more insights from Paul on making viral videos, budgeting, how marketers can work with CollegeHumor and lastly, how to lead a creative organization.

Drew: Is one type of video more likely to viral than another?
Often the ones that go really viral are new sketches. Because it is a new idea, it gets introduced, people latch onto it, they love it and they send it around.  And so for example, we did one that was called, Gay Men Will Marry Your Girlfriends. The thrust is, let gay men marry each other because if not, they’re going to marry your girlfriends and they are going to be much better husbands than you would ever be!

Another one that went really viral was called Look At This Instagram (see below).  And it wasn’t again in the Zeitgeist per se but it was a great take on how people use Instagram and it really kind of turned it on its head and parodied it beautifully and people just kind of I know I’ve seen those pictures a million times, I know what they are talking about, and so we really hit those.

Drew: Are series any different from a virality standpoint?
With series you are less apt to get into the Zeitgeist really quickly and so you build an audience over time.  So we’ll often see in a series episodes further down the chain do better than the original ones or we’ll see them catch up. People will discover Very Mary Kate on its 10th episode and go ‘oh wow, I didn’t know about this, and I am going to go back and re-watch all of them. We see binge-watching all the time, people just come in and they watch fifteen videos at a time, and a lot of times it is going back to start series when they’ve come in the middle.  Not that everything is serialized in terms of its plot, but it is just obviously thematically serialized and so we want to make sure that people love to go back and check it out.

Drew:  So how do you budget for production?
We work a monthly basis. So, I say to the team, ‘here is your pot for the month, some you are going to spend more on some and less on some and you know do what you got to do.’  And we work very closely as a team to make sure that if, for example, we are going to go for broke on a Batman video, we are going to do a couple of more Hardly Workings or batch-shoot those and try to do things cheaply. Overall, we’re very efficient in terms of costs.  We have figured out lots of ways to cut corners: we shoot in the office so we don’t have to pay location and we batch-shoot sometimes. It’s very efficient.

Drew:  Are your videos the primary driver of traffic and new users? 
To an extent, although sometimes the non-video content gets shared just as much as the video stuff.  For example, the article Eight New Punctuation Marks That You Need got over a million views because it just got shared everywhere. And now there is interest in a series of it. So it really depends, [non-video] content can really drive a lot of view as well.

Drew:  Do the video creative team also create the other stuff? 
No. We have a separate production team including separate writers who have to be very topically driven.

Drew; Okay, do we get to the point where there is a cable station called CollegeHumor?
No, I don’t think so.  I mean I feel like being the multiplatform studio that we are, we are as close to a new age cable channel as you can get.

Drew:  So tell me about Coffee Town, your upcoming movie—did you write this in-house?
We actually did finance it but we didn’t write the script. Our agent UTA found Brad Copeland who was the writer for Arrested Development.  Brad wrote his own movie script and was looking for somebody to help to allow him to produce it and direct it.  So we were the studio. Brad wrote it, directed it and we produced it.  We went out to LA and hired a film crew, a real legitimate movie crew, etc.  (see trailer here)

Drew: I would suspect you are hoping to rally your army of CollegeHumor fans to see the movie, right? 
Yeah, oh yeah.  We’ll definitely use the army without question. A big part of this is the fact that we can mobilize 20 million people immediately to say or to at least raise awareness if not to get them off their butts into the theatres. And if we put it on iTunes, we can say, hey click here and you’ll be able to watch CollegeHumor’s movie.

Drew:  What exactly is native advertising and what are you doing in this area?
Native advertising is when the advertising blends more with existing content and it becomes less distinguishable as an ad.  We’ve been doing that for five years whether we called it branded entertainment or branded content or branded advertising or native advertising, About a year ago, we reorganized an entire group around native advertising.  We hired two comedy writers just to write branded content and native advertising pieces and we also reorganized a production team so now we have a native advertising production team that just creates videos for advertisers. Out of those 50 videos we create in a month, maybe less than half are advertising video.  But it still feels like CollegeHumor content and people — advertisers [like KFC, AXE & Listerine] come to us because they are interested in our sensibility.

Drew Neisser:  What’s the best way for marketers to work with CollegeHumor? 
Great question. We need to understand what you are trying to do.  Are you trying to increase sales?  Are you trying to just increase your brand perception?  Are you trying to increase relevancy?  Are you trying to activate an audience to go do something? Is about getting more Facebook likes? What do you want as a brand?  And then we can help you come up with content that fits that goal.

Drew: How involved are you in the content decision making process?
Not that involved, at this point, certainly not day to day. We have a phenomenal team of very creative people who are very good at what they do.  I get involved at a high level making sure that we have a strategy and we are trying to follow it and everybody knows what that strategy.  I’ll get very involved if something is questionable from a legal perspective or a taste perspective. But on balance, and that’s how I try to manage my team – hire the best people you can, hopefully people who are smarter than you, and who are experts at what they do and you get obstacles out of their way and you let them do what they do.  And so I don’t see any need to micromanage the content team. Besides, I’m not that funny.

Drew: Have you gotten funnier since you joined?
Much. Much funnier–I’m hilarious.  Actually it is intimidating in a way because these guys are really funny. And they are so quick. We have our weekly staff meetings and even a lot of the executives are standups [comics], and they are just hilarious. I mean it is like somebody took all of the best class clowns and put them all together in one room, it’s hysterical.  It is a really fun place to work.

Drew Neisser:  Do you ever say to yourself, ‘I can believe I have this job?’
Yeah.  Yeah, it’s awesome. I love creating content and creating products that affect people’s lives in a positive way.  That’s one of the things that’s always driven me from a business perspective.

Drew: How about a few secrets to your success?
One is, never stop working ever; just be as aggressive as possible and want to win and do your work your absolute hardest because there is always somebody who is going to work harder than you are and ideas are wonderful but they are a dime-a-dozen.  Everything comes down to execution and doing it right and doing it well.

Drew: Do you have any advice for new or aspiring CEOs?
The advice somebody once gave me for managing is, only do what only you can do and spend your time doing that.  To that end, I wrote an article on this recently that identified five things that CEOs should spend their time doing:

    1. Set the strategy for what the company needs to be and what we are trying to accomplish and what’s our mission and where are we going.  And that’s not done in a vacuum per se, that’s done with the team but ultimately the leader has to be the one who puts his or her stamp on it and say this is the direction we are going to go.
    2. Then it’s making sure that the strategy is communicated very well and that everybody knows what’s going on and that there’s absolutely no misunderstanding. And making sure that everybody is coordinated so that ad sales and editorial and marketing and PR all know what each of the other ones is doing, to help support that overall strategy.
    3. Then its hiring and firing.  Personnel.  Putting the right people in place, and making sure that they are — smarter than you, they’re experts in their field and they are great.
    4. Then it is getting obstacles out of their way and letting them do their jobs and not micromanaging them but making sure that if there is something wrong, that you are there to help them.
    5. The fifth thing is making sure there’s enough capital to run the business and making sure there is a business plan that can be executed.

Drew: You’ve been on both sides of the creative development process including being a voice over talent and a radio announcer. Do you think that has helped you as a leader of a creative-driven company?
Yes. If there is somebody who is never been a creative before and never been on the talent side, you’re going to make decisions purely based on the bottom-line and probably potentially the wrong ones.

Note: this is the 2nd part of my interview with Paul. Click here to see the first part. 

Q&A: John C. Havens, Speaker Extraordinaire

10/31/11

John C. Havens is EVP, Strategy and Engagement at Yoxi.tv , an organization that discovers and elevates social entrepreneurs by leveraging their expertise for global business opportunities.  I had the pleasure of seeing John speak at the recent BDI All Stars conference and caught up with him afterwards. Speaking 30-40 times a year, John is a real pro and has lots of great advice for those of you trying to connect with device-connected audiences.

DN: Is it harder to engage an audience than it was 5 years ago before WiFI connectivity was a conference mandatory?
Yes, because we’re all trained like Pavlov’s pups to check our devices every 14 seconds.  In that regard, there are less people standing up and walking out of presentations because they have to take a call versus email or text. But it’s critical not to let that digital zeitgeist not get in the way of my cardinal rule of presenting – make every talk a gift to your audience.  Meaning, prepare the snot out of your deck and rehearse like crazy and do your best to know the audience you’ll be speaking to.  If you do all that and imbue your talk with passion and try to connect to your audience (by looking them in the eyes, etc) you should earn the right for them to put their devices down.  Point – you’re the storyteller, so make it enchanting enough that you distract them from distraction.

DN: At BDI, at least 3/4 of the audience seemed to have a laptop or iPad open while you were speaking.  Do you find yourself wanting to say, hey turn those devices off and pay attention?
No way. Odds are, at least half of them are tweeting about my presentation and they’re helping market me in real-time! Besides, akin to my earlier answer, it’s not up to me to dictate how someone pays attention.  Before digital devices, a lot of people would take notes on a pad.  That’s how they learn.  If people retain more about a talk because they tweet, who am I to judge?

DN: Would it be worth trying to get the audience to shut down their devices momentarily while you speak?  You’d have their undivided attention but not the extended reach of their social networks.  Which should be more important to a speaker today?
If I tried to get people to shut down their devices, I might get their undivided attention, but it would be mixed with their ire at being told how they should watch my presentation.  I was an actor for years, and it’s essential to know when working with an audience who and when to try to get people to participate.  For instance, when I played a scary character in children’s theatre, I’d always direct my lines to the oldest boys in the audience – they loved the attention but I wouldn’t actually frighten them.

In terms of which is more important, an audience shutting down or getting the reach of their networks, the hope is people actually register what you’re talking about besides waiting for the pithy phrase that will make a good tweet.  But for me when I speak, the most important thing is blow them away with my presentation – that’s the only thing I have control over. The rest is up to the audience.

DN: Knowing that your audience is on Twitter while you speak, are you thinking while you write your speech—gee that line will make a great tweet?
Sure.  Or at least, “this is a good sound bite.”  Puns, sound bites, short and pithy phrases are all ways to aid in retention. Humor is also great – I’ve read cognitive studies saying that if people laugh at something you’ve really connected with them and there’s a 50% higher probability they’ll remember what you said than without humor.

Another cardinal rule of mine – never make it difficult for people to remember or share what you say.  My old acting agent used to tell me when I came back from auditions they’d call the casting directors to get feedback on how I did.  If they said, “John came in here and blew me away” or “John’s choice was way over the top but he was really passionate,” may agent was happy.  If my agent called and said, “how did John do?” and the answer came back, “John who?” that’s when I was in trouble.

DN: Are social media conferences harder to engage than say a group of accountants who aren’t necessarily trying to be the first to share what they just heard?
Every audience is different.  A hard core Social Media audience like SXSW where I spoke last year is definitely device and dialogue (to their social graphs) focused.  But a lot of times they’re the most responsive because they’re already drinking the digital kool-aid. Accountants or folks not as versed in Social Media oftentimes have a vibe/energy of, “prove to me Social Media has an ROI” before you even start talking. So my focus there is usually to not focus on the tools of the trade but the overall value proposition of connecting with relevant to your audience, wherever they get their content.

DN: You mentioned you were an actor in a former life.  This sort of gives you a competitive advantage on stage, don’t you think?
Sure.  I studied the craft of acting which includes working on your voice, dancing/movement, and projection.  But mostly good acting is about connecting with truth to the person you’re on stage with in the moment.  Meaning, you can’t be thinking, “this line will make the audience laugh” when you’re on stage or you’re dead.  You can try to make a joke, but every audience is different.  Your job onstage is to deliver your message or story in a way that best connects to the people sitting in front of you RIGHT NOW.  If they don’t seem to be getting your message, use techniques like saying, “Does that make sense?” after you make a point.  Or say things like, “anyone else heard of SIRI?” and raise your hand, indicating for them to raise their hand.  People don’t mind audience participation if you genuinely seek their response and aren’t a tool.  What you should NEVER do is single someone out and alienate them, ala standup comedian mode.  Or, if you’re going to try and do that, prove that you’re making them part of the act versus the butt of a joke – say something like, “Hi, what’s your name?

DN: Do you get any feedback from these events and if so, why kind of adjustments have you made based on this feedback?
I don’t get as much specific, actionable critique as I’d like.  My old acting teacher was great at this stuff and I recommend this practice technique for any speaker – record yourself rehearsing your presentation.  Odds are you’ll see that you flap your hand with nervous tension, or scratch your head every 30 seconds.  You have to identify these nervous tics so you can get rid of them and focus all of your energy on speaking in the moment.

I have gotten some good advice on talking about technology.  Years ago, someone told me they liked what I said but didn’t get the context of my presentation.  I delved right into talking about specific social media tools without providing a backdrop for what an audience learned.

So in that sense I try to always do the following:

  • Research who I’m speaking to (marketers, digital savvy or no, what level of the organization, where are they geographically based).
  • Make sure I review the expectations of my talk (what’s been advertised) before I being working on my presentation.
  • Find a bookend for the STORY of my talk. Don’t just list facts – what is the POINT you’re trying to make?
  • Remind people throughout my talk what I’m talking about.  I’m a big believer in the old adage about what makes a good presentation: Here’s what I’m going to talk about, here’s what I’m talking about, here’s what I just talked about.  Less points made well makes for a more memorable presentation than a zillion factoids.

My last bit of advice – change the world with your talk.  Why get up and talk in front of a group if you’re not wildly passionate about your subject matter?  Pretend you’re at a bar talking to friends, or with your family telling stories around the campfire.  This is not about being hokey – it’s an acting technique you need to hone or don’t get up on stage.  If you aren’t completely excited to tell everyone your message, why should your audience be excited to listen?

Empty Nest; Full To-Do List

08/26/11

As my wife and I brace for empty nesthood, we’ve been discussing to do’s that we’ve put off to-date.  Before that list gets too long, I decided to add a campaign for Charity Water.  As you may recall from some of my posts last year, Charity Water is a remarkable organization that helps bring fresh water to those who don’t have it. My last campaign raised $2500 for the Bayaka people of central Africa.  Now the mission is to raise money for drilling equipment, equipment that is expensive but will help speed up the process.  Always up for a good challenge, I doubled the goal, hoping to raise $5000, which in the end will fund fresh water for 250 people for a year!

The only thing I ask of you, dear reader, is that you watch the video below.  It’s amazing, inspiring and moving. Go ahead. I dare you to watch this and not get involved…

The 2011 September Campaign. Our 5-year-anniversary video from charity: water on Vimeo.

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So that’s the pitch.  Ready to join me?  Just click here.  Or here.  Or here.  It’s a truly impressive organization. After I set up my new campaign, Scott Harrison the founder of Charity Water sent me this personal note:

  • Drew: Just wanted to drop you a personal thank you for starting a september campaign this year. I‘ve been to Ethiopia 16 times in the last couple years, and can personally vouch for our incredible partners there.  So excited to work together to bring them a new drilling rig to help more people–Scott

Not too many CEO’s send out personal thank you notes these days but then again, not too many CEO’s take their business as personally as Scott.  Thanks for the inspiration Scott and good luck!

More tasty morsels from #140conf

06/17/11

Since I had to leave the 140 Conference early on Thursday and get back to work, Renegade intern Niko DeMordaunt filled in for me and prepared these wonderful notes.  For my take on the conference and an explanation of what it is, see my savory post on FastCompany.com: I’m Not Done With My Potatoes.

The big screen
Marci Liroff, a casting director who worked on movies such as E.T. and Raiders of the Lost Ark, explained emphatically how she turned from a Twitter rookie into a Twitter pundit. Noting that Twitter is about “giving, not selling,” Liroff spoke of the film industry’s slow but steady integration with websites such as Twitter and Skype.

Speaking of Skype, famed author Deepak Chopra couldn’t make it to the #140conf but was video-projected in via Skype. Chopra held a captive audience as he spoke grandly of the “human potential” and social media’s ability to achieve peace and harmony through broad networks.

Let’s get physical
The self-proclaimed Lupus Ladies of Twitter, led by Amanda Greene, turned this digital conference into veritable love fest with their emotional testimony. The four women all suffer from Lupus and have used social media to create support networks. Christine Miserandino went so far as to strip from a dress into pajamas to illustrate the point that she is a regular person in pajamas who employed social media to create a support system.

Jack Hidary, an entrepreneur extraordinaire, followed the Lupus Ladies with his own memorable performance. A former neuroscientist, Hidary told the audience to “Go Limbic,” meaning they should target their audience’s whole brain, not just a small part of it. To further his point, Hidary passed out small wooden discs and had the crowd team up into groups of four to create a flying contraption. The “airplane” that flew the furthest won iPod Shuffles for all the team members.

Crowd pleasers
On a panel with other television executives, Steve Krakauer brought social media back into reality. Krakauer, a digital producer from Piers Morgan Tonight (CNN), reminded the social media consumers that Twitter and Facebook need to translate into more income / ratings / viewers, or the social media efforts develop into nothing.

According to Krakauer, social media needs to turn into ROI. Well, according to Ted Rubin, social media needs to turn into ROR, or Return on Relationship. Rubin roused cheers by reminding the audience to “look into eyes, not iPads” in social interactions. Rubin believes people should use the platform (i.e. Twitter) to build personal relationships, not avoid them.

The State of Guerrilla Marketing

11/22/10

The following is a Q&A with yours truly on the current state of affairs in guerrilla marketing.

Q: How has guerrilla marketing evolved?

Guerrilla thinking has evolved tremendously in the last 24 months. Press seeking guerrillas have shifted away from street theater to something with online legs. Part of this is fishing where the fish are. Part of this is that if you can gain Likes or YouTube channel subscriptions, your initial contact can turn into a more lasting relationship. Part of this is the press itself—the press is more likely to wax on about a social program than a purely street program at this moment in time.

Q: What’s up with street stunts?

Frankly, I’ve never been a fan or promoter of the street stunt approach. They are typically a brief encounter with little residual value. The challenge with guerrilla has always been to provide a reasonable exchange of value between brand and consumer. In exchange for a consumer’s time, the brand must provide some value, either genuine utility or at least a good laugh. The reason the HSBC BankCab is still on the road after seven years is that the value exchange is extraordinary. First, people love to see an old Checker driving around the streets. Second, when they get in the BankCab, it is a refreshing experience complete with a truly knowledgeable cabbie. Third, HSBC customers get a free ride when engenders brand love. We recently renovated the HSBC BankCab, enabling it to run on compressed natural gas, thus making it a more “green” experience. As street programs go, this is about as good as it gets.

Q: What’s cool right now?

The most exciting area of guerrilla right now, is the social to offline movement. Skittles “Mob the Rainbow” program is one great example of this. Skittles solicits ideas from its 10 million strong Facebook fan base, which sometimes lead to hilarious offline executions. For example, fans suggested sending Valentines to a particular postal worker. Skittles did just that and produced a funny viral video which brought the program full circle. JetBlue is using its strong Twitter following in a similar fashion. Earlier this year, @JetBlue tweeted they were on a particular street corner in Manhattan giving away tickets. In a matter of minutes, 300 eager travelers showed up and of course, JetBlue got some nice ink for this as well. In this way, social media has replaced email as the ignition switch for flash mobs.

Q: How does social fit into a guerrillas plans?

Any marketer considering a physical guerrilla interaction would be crazy not to also bake in a social component. The social component should give the program legs, extending the offline interaction online. It also provides a home for videos and or photos taken of the physical interaction thus sharing these experiences with a larger audience. The social component also helps amortize the cost of the potentially expensive offline component. Finally, the social component provides an opportunity for feedback something that is not always easy to get in the physical arena.

Q: Is the physical street experience dead?

Since marketing success has often been about zigging when others zag, a few enlightened marketers will renew their emphasis on the physical experience and the true engagement opportunity it represents. Touching someone deeply often requires a physical touch. Online dating sites do the matchmaking but typically the fire doesn’t flame until the couple actually meets.

Q: What roles are left for guerrilla marketing?

Guerrilla thinking has never been dependent on one particular type of interaction. It has always been about making more out of less, breaking the ice in order to build meaningful and hopefully lasting relationships. Social marketing has proven its ability to maintain and nurture relationships but the jury is still out on its ability to generate trial from new customers.

Q: How has Renegade evolved from a guerrilla standpoint?

I see social marketing as an evolution of our long-time guerrilla practice. The goals haven’t changed but the tactics  we use continue to grow and evolve. Five years ago, three out of four incoming calls would be from clients seeking guerrilla ideas. Now those same clients are requesting social marketing ideas. The impetuous for the calls is the same—help us engage customers cost-effectively.

["Delivery.com Street Stunt in October"][]

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